Nielsen's Cheap Trick

Dave Frey is the manager of Cheap Trick. They released their most recent album, The Latest through TuneCore earlier this year.

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I am a manager. One of my clients is a band called Cheap Trick. They have been together for 35 years and basically play shows and make recordings.

Though the public is clearly buying singles and not CDs, they record songs in clusters. They can prepare/rehearse them, get good instrument sounds, and realize other savings through efficiency. Once a good drum sound is finally dialed in, why not record a group of songs?

Anyway the band self released a collection of songs on 8-track, LP, CD, and digitally, called "The Latest" last summer. And since then the biggest thing I've learned is the power, (and price), of the band's fan information.

 

For instance, Ticketmaster "owns" information on hundreds of thousands of Cheap Trick fans who have purchased their concert tickets. This is for sale. Amazon "owns" information relating to every Cheap Trick Amazon sale from day one. Their information is for sale. All Music “owns” a Cheap Trick "Artist Page" that propagates inaccurate out-of-date information. And many third party sites parrot their information, and that's for sale. Soundscan "owns" information concerning CD and digital sales. Their information is for sale.

So, every couple of years when the band releases a new CD we hustle, work, and pay to promote it. This activity always raises their profile. And like clockwork Cheap Trick's former record company(s) release repackaged budget Special Products to cannibalize the new release. Once they buy this information they can better target their predatory product.

So it was decided “The Latest” would not be registered with Soundscan. Maybe the former labels would have a harder time trying to trick the fans. But keeping information from Soundscan so that it can't be sold to competitors is impossible.

Today I called Tunecore, our distribution company, pissed-off because a radio station I spoke with bought the digital sales information. I wanted to see if TuneCore could help stop the digital stores from reporting our sales information to Soundscan.

It is common knowledge that Soundscan pays iTunes, Amazon, and others for information so that they can mark it up and resell it. Soundscan also acquires their information from the electronics chain, two bookstores, the coffee conglomerate, and the two big box discount warehouse(s) who still remain in the physical CD retail space.

So selling information to predators is how Nielsen/Soundscan hurts musicians and I don't appreciate Soundscan selling my client's information to anyone.

Similar to the 24/7 media that leaves no room for mystique, development, and nowhere to earn fans. Too much information in the wrong hands can kill. And when the light hits, it's often too soon, and like bugs under a magnifying glass everything's cooked.

Comments

[Dave]

The Newbury Comics example is dead on the money. Their sales info was being sold to a competitor who, through their deeper pockets, was able to cut Newbury's throats. It would be the same as if your favorite local restaurant sold its sales info to a Soundscan-type group that sold it to a national chain so that the chain could alter their regional menus to steal customers away from the local.

Cheap Trick has always had a strong touring work ethic, during good times and bad. And even though I like to see them as the main act, playing a longer show with more deep cut album tracks, but I understand that by joining the 'package tours', they're gaining new fans by putting on great shows (Chicago's review of last year's show with Def Leppard and Poison said CT had the best show of the three and that the others should pick up some of their cues). Now as a Cheap Trick fan since the beginning, I'm able to recognize and ignore any of the endless repackages in the stores or online, but if someone sees a show and heads to the store to get something they're at the mercy of the retailers who are tight with Soundscan and stocking all of the repackages. It's quite likely that they might prefer a hits collection, but that's Dave's point, and that's also why Cheap Trick specifically has labeled theirs as 'Authorized' greatest hits.

And casinos? I've only seen a few rock shows, but they've been great sound and sightwise. Not quite the 'rock concert' vibe I'm usually used to (standing shoulder to shoulder and getting beer spilled on me), but still excellent when the band is good. Don't know how many new fans they pick up from those, but as someone said, it helps pay the bills.

'The Latest' is a great 'record' in whatever format you hear it, and I for one still appreciate the artistry involved in an artists' being able to sequence a great bunch of songs in a sensible way. And I think it's good to see that Cheap Trick has a manager who is keeping an eye on all facets of their business dealings and the current market. It may be an uphill, or even impossible battle, but at least he's trying.

(Ironically, I noticed I'm required to give my email address to leave this comment... wonder what type of marketing list I'll be put on for this info...

[IHeartCT]

Not a lot of literate people making comments, and all under the guise of knowing it all. Anyways, unfortunately I bought 'The Latest' from iTunes because that was the easiest way to get it onto my blackberry. Always have been, always will be a die-hard Cheap Trick fan!

[Don Plob]

Dave – Let me preface my brief remarks by stating I am a ridiculously huge Cheap Trick and think “The Latest” and the current live set are both the best work the guys have done in years.

But your issue is, dare I say, naïve. Virtually every interaction you make is being tracked and that data is then sold to someone else. The DMV – sold. Your local grocery store and their ‘rewards card’ – sold. Google, Amazon, iTunes, etc. – every click you make online is being monitored in one way or another and your habits create a profile for companies to market to. What you’ve described has been mainstream for years and a widely acceptable form of marketing intelligence.

And on the issue of labels following artist trends to sell more product – as a rights holder, they have an obligation to market their assets with as much intelligence as possible. When they see a legacy act tour, record, appear on TV or in a movie, etc. it only makes sense to attempt to deliver more content during any period of increased awareness. And as pointed out by someone else, the band benefits financially from the sale of those assets as well.

Just my two cents.

[LB Higginbotham]

Sounds like it's time to pull a Cheap Trick of your own talk to an industry lawyer about dissolving all contacts, possibly siting inevitable anguish (with Doctors Progress backing you up) Buy out of your contracts and go Indie! There are lots of good options out there for lucrative self promotion. Set up your own vanity site as that will trump past media files published by past media partners.
Good luck,
wisdomhouseusaproductions@gmail.com

[Diana Forsea]

I don't know much about The Biz. I love Cheap Trick. Kudos to the people who work for and with Cheap Trick. It takes many people to put on great shows and make wonderful albums.

Is there any proof, that if the label puts out old material, it will dilute sales of the new album? It makes sense that it would. I heard the old material does not have great sound. It does not seem fair for the label, to be leaching off Cheap Trick. It seems like the label is trying to trick the band's fans, too.

Cheap Trick came to the label very strong and had a lot to offer. The band played live for years, before they signed. They were talented, tight, hard working, had visual appeal, humor, many songs and skills. It seems the label did not know what to do with CT, the band was poorly promoted, on most albums, and the label interfeared with CT's creativity. CT hit big commercial success with Budokan, a self produced album. I think the label hurt CT more than helped them. I don't think the label had much to do with that. I don't think the label helped the band much. After CT left the label, the music improved. It bugs me that the label is still making money off CT, after what they did and are still giving the band headaches.

I love CT's legendary live shows. I don't care who they are playing with, if I can go, I will and enjoy what I get, even if it's a shorter set. If it can be done, I think it would be better for CT, to play longer sets, with bands that have more respect and play similar music to CT. The recent shows with half of Jellyfish were great. It think the TV exposure was good for CT. Hope more is comming and announced on CT's message boards so, fans can tune in and notify other people to watch. Can they get on more shows? How about Oprah or Biography channel. Love the interviews. All four band members have great personalities. It would be good to get the other guys to do more. Rick seems to do most. Whatever the CT camp is doing, it's working. CT seems strong now.

I'm very glad this article came my way. I thought buying the albums, the label puts out, would help CT, lol. I will not be doing that in the future and encourage others, not to do that. I'll stick to buying albums off CT's site and used items. Information like this is helpful on CT's message boards.

[joe]

if the item did not have a UPC/EAN code, could SoundScan still register the sale?

[Melissa Marie]

Cheap Trick's current management has nothing to do with the poor, shoddy management the band experienced over the years. Their current management has given the band back their "cool" profile as opposed to past management who ran them into the ground with Diane Warren songs and Richie Zito-produced albums that totally ruined their credo. Doing 3-night stands - great! Then all these other bands started copying that model and doing the same thing - a different album a night for consecutive nights.

The band is constantly trying new innovative approaches thanks to their current management. So what if they have to play some casinos? At least they're getting out there and touring consistently. So what if they're "the opener for the opener" on a tour? Last summer's tour with Def Leppard/Poison/Cheap Trick was one of the highest grossing, popular tours of the summer! The summer before that, with Journey and Heart - again, Cheap Trick was on that bill as well and it, too, was one of the highest grossing, popular tours of the summer.

That's a good way to get your music out there to a lot of people - and people who aren't the usual hardcore fans who might sit there and say, "they were pretty good - I'm going to get their album." Why should a casual fan like that be subjected to the reissued crap that the former labels put out for consumption? And these casual fans unknowingly end up picking that up instead of the current release because the former crap labels decide to glut the market? The point is, these "best of" products are inferior releases.

(And to the person that said something like "real fans won't buy the reissued crap" - not true. I've seen fans buy that stuff "just to have it" - so the old label wins anyway.)

"The Latest" has garnered great reviews across the board. It's a stellar album. If you look back on Cheap Trick's non-major-label release history, you will see that every time a new product came out, the older labels release an inferior "best of" product.

It's not just Cheap Trick - it's all bands - especially the ones who have been around for a long time - that suffer the same fate.
Dave Frey is correct and on the point. The bands should be able to control their own information. Some old label shouldn't be allowed to glut a store with inferior product just because they find out a band is doing an in-store signing and they figure people will pick up whatever the new album is, and also their own product. Seems like it's mostly bands that came up in the 60s and 70s that suffer this fate more than the rest - Cheap Trick, Aerosmith, REO Speedwagon, etc.

[Chris]

The Latest is a great new album/CD. No band will very relive thier youth and only a very few bands play to the level of their hay days! Those are the really big bands of the 60/70's. I would not worry to much about Cheap Trick and thier mamagement, they go together hand in hand, for over 35 years they have made some dumb mistakes with regard to thier career. That's what makes them so cool, they make some dumb mistakes, loss money and then go back out on the road to pay the rent. And once in awhile write and record a few really cool songs.

[Dave Frey]

Thanks for all the constructive criticism.

I certainly didn't mean to come off whining and complaining and I will try to write to some of the issues raised.

In my opinion The Latest is a really great record.

There's never been a better time to be in the record business and this release has exceeded expectations.

The distributor(s) of The Latest, including Tunecore provide us with fantastic information on who is buying what.

So in my opinion, repeat, in my opinion SoundScans' only stake in the band's new self release is to sell what I view as the BAND's information to others.

I called SoundScan in advance asking them to ignore this release, but "they can't."

This is an old topic so I'm surprised at the reaction, from an excerpt on a thesis concerning Strategic Information Management;

"Given the ‘hit-and-miss’ nature of the music business, a key competitive edge for a trendsetting retailer like Newbury Comics is knowing what will sell, and then selling these products aggressively and exclusively within a short window of time. As Dreese of Newbury Comics discovered, among the beneficiaries of the information provided by SoundScan are intermediaries like Handleman. Handleman credits SoundScan with getting them detailed information that it uses for inventory planning and replenishment at the stores of clients like Wal-Mart. Once Newbury Comics realized to what extent its mainstream competitors such as Wal-Mart were benefitting from the precise regional data that it shared with SoundScan— information which these competitors could never compile on their own— it ‘pulled the plug’ and stopped sharing information with SoundScan."

Source; http://mba.tuck.dartmouth.edu/digital/Programs/Seminars/AnandPaper.pdf

So I figured why couldn't Cheap Trick simply "pull the plug" like Dreese did?

And now I've poked the bear so I'll concede that I'm an information predator also.

I've paid for information on the band's fans; who bought what, when, how, and all that, and it's been tremendously useful. When a show is put on sale or an amazon.com promotion is scheduled I've arranged for info on who bought before, even did the; "if you liked this band you'll probably like that band" program.

But I feel that the only entity who should message any band's fans is that band themselves, so to me Cheap Trick buying information on Cheap Trick's fans is okay,

If SoundScan bought information on SoundScan's fans, or if Ticketmaster bought information on Ticketmaster's fans that would be fantastic. Like Apple does with their fans.

And again, this is only my opinion on an old topic.

Thank you

http://www.crawdaddy.com/index.php/2010/02/12/down-with-soundscan-cheap-trick-s-manager-tries-to-find-a-way-around-the-nielson-racket/

[Dennis Wolff - Chicago, IL]

When Cheap Trick signed with their various record companies they contractually agreed to let the record companies release the songs recorded while under contract with them. This is a record company's contractual right. I don't see how the fact that they are targeting people who bought tickets to see Cheap Trick in concert or bought other Cheap Trick albums creates a problem - these are the people that are LEAST LIKELY to buy a recycled greatest hits package - we've already got this stuff!

Also, let's not forget, Cheap Trick gets paid every time those new compilations are sold (unless they signed a really bad contract way back when . . . ).

The fact that the old labels continually re-release old material everytime new material comes out isn't really the issue. The issues are that the new material doesn't hold up as well (the gems get lost among the filler) and Cheap Trick's management hasn't done a great job of promoting them and protecting/building their brand. How many Indian Casino's and Def Leppard tours (as the warm up to the warm up act) do you have to play before mainstream rock fans write you off?

It's time to focus on songs, song placement (especially for the new tunes, Surrender and few others are getting placed), and modern marketing techniques. By modern marketing I'm thinking along the lines of leveraging the legacy to build new audiences - for instance, a Cheap Trick night on American Idol, where everyone has to sing a Cheap Trick song. It might be hard to get in place, but that's the way modern marketing is going. Also, it's not clear to me that they are effectively leveraging the Sgt Peppers shows to build a new base.

Also, the band may need a stronger producer and the commensurate discipline that can bring. They seem to have lost their way - there is less edge in many of the rock songs, some bloated arrangements (especially in the guitars), and too many "filler" tunes. I don't know if this calls for Rick Rubin, or maybe an EP of killer tunes vs. the obligatory ablum full. Fix this and the rest will follow.

Finally, why not fight fire with fire? Go out and buy some information on who is buying the albums of the bands Cheap Trick has influenced and target those fans for the new album. I would expect the people buying the newest Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters or [insert target band audience here] may be a ripe target market.

I'm a huge fan and see them every chance I get, but it's time to quit the bitchin' and start dealing with the realities of the cold new music world. They've got the talent and they are due for a revival. Let's hope they get it together soon.

[Anneke]

Before commenting it would help if people realized that "the Latest" is not a greatest hits CD, but a brand spanking new FANTASTIC CD! Dave is 100% right in his comment, and us true fans are certainly doing our share also in promoting "the Latest" all the way. Their music + their product should equal their profits!

[chris]

Rob has a point and as well does Tommy Castro.Being a huge fan of Cheap Trick if I wanted info on the band,i.e;tour dates,record release info,I'm going to the bands website and it should be up to their webmaster to let the fans know what's up with the band in these reguards.If I'm at the store browsing albums there is always a "new release" section that should have the "new" albums and if some smart excec. puts out an album with a bunch of older tunes by that same band then we as consumers or fans of these bands have the right to purchase whichever we choose.Sounds to me like this guy should do a better job reading the "fine print"...

[Amber Snider]

Are the old labels simply trying to ride the coat tails of the new releases? If so, wouldn't the fans be interested in the new songs rather than ones they have already heard? Very interesting article.

[Invisible Finger]

I don't appreciate Soundscan selling my client's information to anyone.

The record of a sales transaction from a retailer to an end consumer is not your client's information.

Poor Cheap Trick - they seem to have an uncanny history of hiring idiots for managers.

[yacouba diarra]

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