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February 11, 2009

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The last paragraph really said it all . Don't ever get into a situation when you need to rush music as you loose a big part of why we make music . You need to have patience when making an album ...

I know more than a few engineers that are young and independent. Now, I'm not saying they are making assloads of money, but then again, they have only been in the game for a little over 2 years. They produce mixes that are easily as good as the music you hear circulating in the mainstream (better, if you ask me) and more importantly, they do it with half the amount of equipment a pro studio might have. They save up, and every couple months they end up buying a new piece of excellent hi end gear. They study mixing books and publications. Also, and I think MOST importantly, they have interned and befriended great, creative engineers, who have passed on their knowledge. In fact, I've never met an engineer who went to school for it. It seems to me that most engineers got into it from making their own recordings when younger, and then became obsessed with getting good sounds. Thats all you need.

As for this article, all I have to say is, NO SHIT. Why on earth would you need to remind us that if money is no object you can spend a fortune and buy a slick sounding production. And then, the moment that matters most, what do you do when you have a limited budget - he just says we're screwed! We wanted mixing tips, not elitist attitude.

Well...I read the article days ago and just now I read all the comments. I really think there is only ONE problem with the whole issue: FOCUS!

The thing is...if you even rehearse with a band, you must have at least a small sense of mixing. Otherwise everything will sound messy, right? Ok, that's a start. Now, there's another much more important point: who knows better than YOU how YOUR music should sound like??? Nobody. I write the music I would like to hear - after all, I call it MINE. If someone wants some of my music to be this way or that way, they can hire me to write a song and I will work my ass off until I please them.

I heard more than once Steve Vai saying "You can't say 'my noise is better than your noise'". I believe it entirely. If I don't like something, it's my opinion and not a reason to classify that as bad music (bad mix, bad hair or whatever). I was just listening to Sgt. Pepper's and the mix has lead vocals on one side and this kind of crazy stuff. I guess if YOU do this at home, people will say you're not an "expert" mixer and blew it. But everyone (or almost) love The Beatles. Don't WE?

About experts, I think an expert is someone who is truly devoted to something for a very long time and have experience. It doesn't mean someone who "makes the laws and sets the trends" for anything. Have you never heard a story about someone who had nothing to do with a situation and came up with a better solution than everybody else? A bit of distance can do that. It's not personal for someone who is not involved.

Now, here's a controversy: should your music deals be personal to you or not??? Of course you hear your music (or any) in a way that no one else does. So it is with your mix. In my opinion, you should ask yourself if you should be open to an outside opinion for a mix or anything and if you know exactly the results you want and how to get there. Believe yourself. Why? Because there is no other way, really!

If you can't pay, DIY. If you can pay, do you want to? Yes? Go for it. But don't lose a night of sleep over it. Trust your decisions. Know your strenghts and weaknesses (Sun Tzu, anyone?). If you can't get what you need, pay someone who can. There is a way to get there and it is pretty different for everyone.

About being personal or not...I make music because I love it. I don't know anything more personal than LOVE! If I were talking about a jingle, it's not MY song, it's THEIR song. But it's about my music.

And if you want respect for your opinions, do the same to others. After all, a song is only an opinion about how notes and other noises should be put together.

Moe

Truth be told, everybody is selling you something. It might NOT be Cliff, however, any engineer that has time to give your mix a perfunctory listen has an economic interest in steering you into his services. If that means telling you that a mix is "GOOD" even in an understated way, he will do that. However he doesn't know any better than you how an A&R guy will react to his mix over yours.

You don't know that the A&R guy can tell the difference!

The truth about engineering is that many people do it well, "expert" or DIY. What you have to remember is that some paid professionals don't have a clue how to do their job well in any industry . . . companies do have to hire somebody to fill a quota of production.

The suggestion that the best engineers are hired by professional studios or that some studio near your place of residence (any-town, hometown or stick-town U.S.A) has a core competency significantly above typical computer savvy end-users with a lifetime of listening to music and the DIY timetable to get the mix right is laughable. If you can't use a computer, don't know what panning is or can't tell the difference between -6dB and -15dB, you need an "EXPERT." If you can't track without clips, you need an "EXPERT."

However, you can arrive at a mix just as good as the Tech Institute graduate or the intern at your local music studio given a few years of experience and the vision to know what the music is going to sound like. In fact, you can get reasonably "GOOD" mixes your first try.

Mixing with specific ideas in mind is the best way that I work. The only downfall is if YOU use the same template of an idea for every project. The only conceivable downfall to a great DIY mix is the immediate impact that you CANNOT make on friends or audiences by citing that your resident engineering demigod oversaw the production on your latest album, although that doesn't necessarily make your album less spot on. DIY can make its own impact on your friends or audiences. Ride the wave!!!

If you have specific ideas for what you want each album or, MAYBE better still, each song to sound like, then I recommend taking the time to LEARN DIY.

Wow! Looks like I hit a nerve with this article. I'm guessing that part of it comes from the fact that readers didn't get a chance to read Part 1 where I suggest taking your time and absolutely (if you're serious about it) learning to mix for yourself. As to the accusations that I'm "shilling" for engineering services, I can only tell you that my intention was to give the readers options on how to fix a mix quickly at a variety of budget points NOT to send them in the direction of any particular studio. In ALL businesses that are successful, there is an understanding of what they do well and what they should hire others to do for them. As I've never heard any of the forum contributor's music/mixes, this isn't a personal critique or value judgment. It's simply a suggestion that if you take your music seriously, you should make the effort to become an expert in the areas that are important to you or go to experts in the areas that are not. I hope that makes things more clear and best of luck! - Cliff

what if Im a musician who writes and composes with a daw and I am also
a trained and experienced pro engineer? the way i make music and limited equipment, I have always used methods which I must render several times beginning with the conceptual stages to the end product! I struggled for years but such techniques have trained my ears and relentless pursuit has brought me unto an extremely effective production style! I always like to atleast put the mix in the hands of another to tweak it as much as possible. I think their is something to be said for artists who are fully engaged in boths sides of it as are many especially now days. Personally I have always pursued music as an individual because working with 1 ego is hard enough, and the thought of trying to effectively carry out ideas with three other idiots only involved to get a buzz and the occasional one night stand influenced me to work with machines... at least they show up right? but just want to encourage others out ther who might be struggling creatively because they are determined to apply cutting edge production methods. Stay at it! it is frustrating for a long time battling the machines but hang in their and the reward is ultimate creative freedom! i have yet to hear 1 legitimate reason why the musician doesnt have the exact potential to be as effective if not more than the "pro engineer" n

> the level of quality a dedicated pro can bring to your
> mixes/movies etc. is still something to consider.

As a paid mix engineer, I totally agree with you. I take my income from major labels and established projects who know what they want and the resources to get there.

The new kids trying to get a break really can't afford me and my overheads can't stretch to many freebies. If they have questions about how to improve their mixes I will tell them exactly what they need to improve with no strings attached, but only if they ask... there are a lot of lazy people trying to be artists.

I'm all for DIY, but there's a distinct downside. i think it's worth mentioning that, while there is a possibility to do everything by yourself these days, the level of quality a dedicated pro can bring to your mixes/movies etc. is still something to consider. Saying that you can just as well shoot your own video is a bit of an insult to people who are dedicated filmdirectors, and the same goes for mixing imho. An experienced and talented mixer might bring depth and clarity to your music that you won't necesarily be able to achieve, (even though your mixes might sound very acceptable to you).
And more importantly, if your a talented musician, do you want to spend your time and energy learning how to mix, Shoot a video, or write music? Cuz it's different things, and the more time you invest in YOUR craft, the better it gets.

(i have no economic interest in any of this btw : )

I slouched in a major label mix session- my friend and studio owner to one of the foremost recording complexes in Chicago was embarassed he brought me. I think he saw me cringe when the producer- shouted, that the major label heads we're going to love him for his mastering of a completely formulaic edit of a song that was almost sexier than Nick Lachey's # 1 hit that included back-ups from Kev(K-Fed)Fenderlings. Wow...at any rate I haven't masturbated since then.
None the less- alot of people in the music business are simple and corporate-just because I want them all to commit suicide doesn't mean they will. And whats with the advice for all new artists to learn how to do "covers" right? What The Fuck? How pathetic that Billboards advice is for struggling artists to not write, record, and make their own work. The industry is full of completely washed out-bland-unoriginal types- just yearning for a photo- op and somebody elses material. Then there's the development advice from a Starbucks media mogul in a sell out shirt that survived not being on reality T.V show...

Nice article, But I already knew this. I think some people, Almost every post is missing the point. DIY is not do it all yourself. A a successful band, or brand, or artist, If you did not go to school for enginering dont try to mix your potential hits yourself! Save the money and have it professonally done by someone that can do it beyond great!! After all, as a independant, your songs are the only things you can stand on so they better be great. Dont skimp out on quality professional mixing to just have more songs recorded.

If you can only afford to mix one song properly, Just record that one song. With todays low production cost, there ARE no more excuses for half assed demos. If your band is not pulling in enough money for professional mixing, all members should get a day job and in 2 weeks to a month, they should be able to pay for at least 1 quality mixing job!!!

Nice work, assmonkey. Looks like you pissed off every reader on the forum. Better luck next time.

So we take an unlikely scenario, "you will be rich and famous in 24 hours if you can fix a bad mix" and suggest the most general of unhelpful suggestions, "if you're rich, pay a top flight engineer from Nashville"

Well, that is helpful, glad I read.

2/10

I'm amazed at the abilities some people seem to expect A&R guys to have. Most of what they sign is rubbish and loses the label a lot of money. Don't expect them to be able to hear a gem of a song in a shit recording. The majority just aren't good enough at their jobs to do that.

I've always said a good song can stand on its own. Any A&R guy worth his salt can spot it from a mile away.Let them pay for the mixing.

total trash story. space filler, shameless self promotion. slightly offended that I even read it. Tunecore, please give your customers more. seriously. at least tell us to fix a drum mix with some tambourine, that was actually specific and helpful.

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